North Star Conversations Transcript: Shame and Dissociation—Tovah Means, LMFT

Brandon Gimbel (00:00)

You said the word shame. I think shedding light on the processes of how our minds work reduces shame. It gives people an understanding of what's happening to them. And then they can understand that well this is how the mind works. This is how their mind works. And we can actually do something about it.

Tovah Means (00:16)

Yeah, shame blocks curiosity and it blocks reflective that we actually have as humans to help us in situations like this. And so before you even dive into the deeper trauma with people, you have to address that feeling of "I'm damaged goods," which every survivor has. They then have to deal with the shame of being someone who was mistreated so badly. So it's not an end to shame, but it's sort of a pathway to go a little bit deeper with people when you can normalize "Hey, any brain would have acted this way."

Brandon Gimbel (00:44)

Yeah, almost no one comes into my office understanding shame.