North Star Conversations Transcript: Mindfulness is the Pause—Mindy Wilkerson, LCSW
Mindy Wilkerson and Brandon Gimbel discuss how DBT uses “both-and” thinking and the simple act of pausing to create psychological flexibility and reduce suffering.
Brandon Gimbel (00:00)
I want to talk about the dialectic, what that means, because no one understands that one. I'm trained in psychodynamic psychotherapy, so I'm well-versed in the idea of ambivalence. Ambivalence means 'ambi,' meaning 'two'— I can hold two thoughts, feelings, emotions, ideas that are in opposition to each other at the same time. How do you think about it?
Mindy Wilkerson (00:22)
Two opposites can be equally true at the same time. In DBT, we are all doing the best we know how to do— and— we all can do better. Both of those things can exist at once. We can't do better until we know better, and we'll do better once we know better.
Brandon Gimbel (00:42)
You said something very important, which was: And. Two things can be true: I'm doing the best that I can— And—I can learn to do better.
Mindy Wilkerson (00:45)
Yes. The dialectics open up space of both-and.
Brandon Gimbel (00:56)
Which is a critical concept in all therapy. It allows for psychological flexibility. None of us is changing immediately. It requires time and work.
Mindy Wilkerson (00:58)
Mindfulness is about the pause. It's not meditation per se, but mindfulness is "I am able to pause."
Brandon Gimbel (01:14)
The only thing that we know is true is you are sitting here, you are focusing on your breath, you are in pain, or you are calm, or you are hungry, whatever it might be. What we don't know is the story that comes up automatically.
Mindy Wilkerson (01:28)
So 'checking the facts' and being able to slow down enough not to act impulsively, but to act in our power. What do I have power over right now?
Brandon Gimbel (01:38)
Mindfulness is the pause.
Mindy Wilkerson (01:40)
Mindfulness is the pause.